yeah i mean??? sentiments like that totally ignore the fact that misogyny and misandry - as well as all the other things they list - are not the same and don’t have the same impact???
like okay
let’s say someone’s been hitting me with a stick
for centuries
and finally i get fed up and i rip out a handful of grass and throw it at them
“OH MY GOD. OH MY GOD. HOW COULD YOU? HOW CAN YOU SAY YOU WANT EQUALITY. WHY WOULD YOU THROW GRASS AT ME IF YOU WANT ME TO TREAT YOU NICELY AND GIVE YOU HUMAN RIGHTS.”
“well i mean you …. you’ve been beating me with a stick??? you’re beating me right now, actually, and i know throwing grass doesn’t actually do anything but it makes me feel better about the situation and it’s kind of funny and it makes it more bearab-“
“BUT WHEN YOU THROW GRASS AT ME, IT IS JUST AS BAD AS ME HITTING YOU WITH THIS STICK. IF YOU WANT TO BE EQUAL YOU HAVE TO TREAT ME EQUAL”
a beautiful metaphor.
I’m bothered about this whole idea of Safe Queer Spaces being straight-exclusionary. I understand that non-straight and non-cisgender people are discriminated against and face the sort of problems which straight and cisgender people just don’t need to worry about, so I agree that it is very important for those people to have Safe Spaces, and I agree that, of course, that requires discrimination between straight and non-straight (and cis and non-cis) people.
I don’t identify as queer - I don’t really identify as straight either, I just sort of don’t.. really bother to identify. And my friend groups are not based around my sexual identification - in other words, I have queer friends and straight friends, but I don’t hang out in ‘queer groups’, I hang out in ‘D&D-playing groups’ and ‘hippie environmentalist groups’ and ‘poetry groups’, all of which may or may not have non-straight people in them. Safe Spaces are pretty much a facilitator of hanging out in a ‘queer group’, where your sexual or gender identification comes before your identification according to social or cultural interests. (Be assured I’m not making a value judgement, these are just two ways to hang out and make friends).
The problem I have is this: last year, I hung out at my university’s Safe Space with my non-straight-identifying friends. This was when almost nobody else was there, and to me it just seemed like a nice out-of-the-way place to have a chat and eat lunch between classes, where the vast majority of people were non-straight. Then our university’s newspaper raised a kerfuffle about the Queer Society not accepting straight people. I felt decidedly uncomfortable about all this. I had not really thought about the policies of the society, but I had never been aware that the Safe Space - where I had hung out - was actually not supposed to accept me. I felt firstly like I’d done something wrong in, I don’t know, not saying that I wasn’t particularly queer and should I really be here guys. If there had been more people there, and a meeting, would I have been asked to leave, or asked for my sexual identification (and what if I wasn’t comfortable in giving it, but was interested in what the Space had to offer before I could open up?) What if I don’t really identify as straight, queer, or anything at all - am I welcome just because I’m unsure of myself and don’t really like labels - I wouldn’t have sex with a guy, so I’m probably sexually more straight, so should I leave after all?
These lines in the sand are very hard to see, and the tide is coming in. If anyone has the time, I’m very curious and a little bothered by all this, and would love some answers.
Okay, take two.
Having thought about this over the course of the day, my conclusion is this: Your problem seems to be that you, as someone who experiences all the privleges of being a white straight male (whether you actually identify specifically as straight or not, just like how I as a bisexual woman can experience straight priveledge sometimes), is suddenly being made to question your right to be in a space.
The thing is, GLBTIQ people feel that way all the time. The further you get away from the straight/cisgendered binary, the more it’s a problem, especially if you’re not male. You’re lucky that this seems to be a pretty unusual experience for you. Safer spaces are partially there to combat this: to give us a place where we don’t feel out of place or like someone’s going to question our right to be there. So to start with, I think you need to think about your position of priveledge here.
The simple answer is yes, if there were a meeting on then a straight person wouldn’t be welcome in the space. I don’t think it’s ever happened that there’s been a straight person in the space at the start of a meeting, since they have to be invited into the space in the first place. You wouldn’t have been asked to identify if you had been there- I think it’s assumed that if you’re using the space then you can probably decide for yourself whether you want to stick around for the meeting. Plus your identity is private and personal, and queer people understand that better than anybody. Questioning/unsure or non-identifying people are welcome, since they fall into the category of ‘not straight’. Also I am slightly worried that you’re imagining there’s a bouncer on the door during meetings checking people’s sexual identification to make sure they’re queer enough. :P
The space is pretty self-selective in that people with access to the space are generally just those people who’ve asked for it, unless they’ve specifically said that they’re not LGBTIQ(etc) identifying. I hope this helped!
Angelina Jolie had a double mastectomy, in case you hadn’t heard. How dare she remove those ticking time bombs from her chest, amiright? Like, hasn’t she learned by now that her body is public domain and we all get to vote on what she does with it? Sheesh, how selfish can ya get.
I’m bothered about this whole idea of Safe Queer Spaces being straight-exclusionary. I understand that non-straight and non-cisgender people are discriminated against and face the sort of problems which straight and cisgender people just don’t need to worry about, so I agree that it is very important for those people to have Safe Spaces, and I agree that, of course, that requires discrimination between straight and non-straight (and cis and non-cis) people.
I don’t identify as queer - I don’t really identify as straight either, I just sort of don’t.. really bother to identify. And my friend groups are not based around my sexual identification - in other words, I have queer friends and straight friends, but I don’t hang out in ‘queer groups’, I hang out in ‘D&D-playing groups’ and ‘hippie environmentalist groups’ and ‘poetry groups’, all of which may or may not have non-straight people in them. Safe Spaces are pretty much a facilitator of hanging out in a ‘queer group’, where your sexual or gender identification comes before your identification according to social or cultural interests. (Be assured I’m not making a value judgement, these are just two ways to hang out and make friends).
The problem I have is this: last year, I hung out at my university’s Safe Space with my non-straight-identifying friends. This was when almost nobody else was there, and to me it just seemed like a nice out-of-the-way place to have a chat and eat lunch between classes, where the vast majority of people were non-straight. Then our university’s newspaper raised a kerfuffle about the Queer Society not accepting straight people. I felt decidedly uncomfortable about all this. I had not really thought about the policies of the society, but I had never been aware that the Safe Space - where I had hung out - was actually not supposed to accept me. I felt firstly like I’d done something wrong in, I don’t know, not saying that I wasn’t particularly queer and should I really be here guys. If there had been more people there, and a meeting, would I have been asked to leave, or asked for my sexual identification (and what if I wasn’t comfortable in giving it, but was interested in what the Space had to offer before I could open up?) What if I don’t really identify as straight, queer, or anything at all - am I welcome just because I’m unsure of myself and don’t really like labels - I wouldn’t have sex with a guy, so I’m probably sexually more straight, so should I leave after all?
These lines in the sand are very hard to see, and the tide is coming in. If anyone has the time, I’m very curious and a little bothered by all this, and would love some answers.
I’m on my way to bed so I won’t give you a long reply right now, but in reference to you being in the queer space: It was fine because you were invited in. Allies are welcome as long as all the queer people in the space are comfortable with them being there, and they always have been in my experience. The important thing is that the space needs to be able to act as a safe space for people who can’t deal with straight people at that time for whatever reason- while it’s mostly used as a social space, that’s its core purpose.
Also, given that you don’t actually identify as heterosexual I’d consider you to be covered by the queer umbrella (not that I’m saying you ought to identify with that or any other term at all), so I think you’d be welcome under most circumstances. I realise this doesn’t address your broader concerns about people who are not you, I’ll try and remember to put some thoughts together tomorrow.


